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OldManFlappyNuts👹's avatar

@Leon Voß

Performative Bafflement's avatar

Question on the breeder equation - I recently tried to calculate what's possible in 8 generations of human selection (driven by assortative mating).

I was getting absolutely crazy results - like even if the top 10% assortatively mates, so not terribly selective, in 8 generations the 8th generation have mean IQ's of ~220, and then get positive and negative buffs from there, so the geniuses in this crowd would all be 250+.

That...seems wrong to me. We should see it in the world, for one thing.

Okay, so where are the breakdown points? h^2 theoretically decays per generation, as you select out the "random luck" baseline components. That can nerf it a little - but also, we might expect it to rise. If Greg Clark has taught us anything, it's that "lineage mean" is meaningfully different than "population mean," and your pool regresses to their lineage mean, which is increasing each generation.

And lineage means really ARE much stronger, empirically - see "social competence" persisting at ~75% everywhere, significantly higher than the actual intelligence and educational attainment h^2's of ~0.5 and ~0.4.

So what else? Is the top 10% assorting too tight? It doesn't seem to be? After all, if we look at the top ~0.5% - 1% that get into T20 schools in America, the child of a T20 alum is 70-75x more likely to get in than a given random person (Chetty). So if the assortation is THAT tight, 10% seems extremely generous.

So I'm kind of at an impass there - why aren't we seeing IQ 200+ families out there? Sure, there's high attainment lineages like the Galton / Darwin / Wedgwoods, the Bohrs and Curies, etc. Scott at ACX had a post about several (https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/secrets-of-the-great-families). But it's not "200 IQ mean" levels of distinction.

I ran this puzzle by Claude, and it came up with some cockamamie ceiling defined by dynasty recurrence z_ss = b * z_spouse / (2-b). So if we plug in Clark's .75 persistence, and a 2sd spouse, you get a 1.2sd cap.

But the whole point of the assortation over generations is that your and your spousal lineage means are increasing! You're not capped at 2sd!

Further, we know that there can definitely be multiple distinct lineages assorting to this level - with Kulin Brahmins famously attaining persistence nearly at ~1, Samurais diverging only ~5% from platonically perfect assortation over hundreds of years, and so on.

So is the breeder equation simply not suitable for multiple generations for some reason? IS there a ceiling on what assortation can achieve, even down at only top decile assortation? Why isn't it whacking T20 alums, if so?

So anyways, I'm kind of puzzled, and hoped you might chime in.

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